Texas Fires and Retardant (?)
My cousin sent me these photos of a plane using fire retardant in Texas near Palo Duro Canyon- there is no USFS land near there at all.
This is relevant to the previous post here and this quote from Andy Stahl:
He added that state firefighting agencies, like those in Florida and Texas, don’t use retardant on wildfires and there’s no significant difference. In the West, though, he said it’s often used on fires on federal lands.
“In Florida and Texas, where forest fires are ubiquitous, retardant isn’t used because the federal government isn’t paying for it because they don’t have federal national forests,” Stahl said. “This is a federal boondoggle. State firefighting agencies without the federal treasury behind them never found retardant to be cost effective, and that the benefits outweigh the costs.”
The ground observations and this quote don’t seem to fit together, can anyone help explain?
Leave a Reply Cancel reply
Benedict’s Corner
Recommended Comment Considerations
Recent Comments
| Matthew Koehler on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Bob Zybach on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Matthew Koehler on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Sharon on High Quality Research Act, And… | |
| Sharon on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Bob Zybach on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Matthew Koehler on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Bob Zybach on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Steve Wilent on Poll: widespread support… | |
| Bob Zybach on Poll: widespread support… | |
| Ed Javorka on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| David Bruggeman on High Quality Research Act, And… | |
| Matthew Koehler on Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without… | |
| Matthew Koehler on House farm bill offers NEPA ex… | |
| Matthew Koehler on Wolf Scientists Howl About Wol… |
Recent Posts
- Poll: widespread support “ecological forestry” approach, rather than trust management of O&C lands
- Spruce Beetle- Beetle Without Drama and With FS Research
- High Quality Research Act, And Research Duplication
- Public Employees Sue Over ‘Political Deals’ Behind Wolf Delisting
- Toxic Mess: EPA places former Missoula Co papermill on National Priorities List
- House farm bill offers NEPA exclusions to combat beetle infestations
- Wolf Scientists Howl About Wolf Delisting
- If not at Maroon Bells, Then Where? Or Predicting Poopy Trailheads
- Wiretap ruling could haunt environmental lawsuits
- University of Calgary Study on Human Impacts on Ecosystems
Contacts
Purpose
Disclaimer
Top Views
- Wolf Scientists Howl About Wolf Delisting
- If not at Maroon Bells, Then Where? Or Predicting Poopy Trailheads
- Public Employees Sue Over ‘Political Deals’ Behind Wolf Delisting
- House farm bill offers NEPA exclusions to combat beetle infestations
- Judge: USFS Must Consult with US FWS to Protect 10 Million Acres of Lynx Critical Habitat
Archives
Science Policy Quote of the Month
"In the real world, many risks we face present neither the great certainties we would need to use cost-benefit analysis effectively nor the almost complete uncertainties that would justify radical precautionary approaches. Moreover, neither the precautionary principle nor cost-benefit analysis tell us anything about the role of democracy in making policy decisions.
I am currently working to develop new approaches rooted in deliberative democracy which might move beyond both strict cost-benefit and knee-jerk precaution toward processes that could achieve better public participation and greater political legitimacy on the major environmental threats to our future."
Jonathan Gilligan, Professor of Earth and Environmental Sciences on his website here.
On Learning Through Blogging
Tags
Blogroll
Forest Service Miscellany
References
Science Policy
Species Diversity/Viability
The West
Post Categories
- 2012 Planning Rule
- 21st Century Problems
- Access
- Accountability
- adaptive management
- Advice for Administration
- Agency Efficiencies
- Alaska Issues
- All Lands
- Appeals and Objections
- Bark Beetles
- Best available science
- Biomass
- Blog -Workin' It
- Budget
- Building Trust
- Business of Land Management
- Certification
- climate change
- collaboration and public involvement
- Communication
- Community Forest Management
- conflict resolution
- Congress
- Cool Technologies
- CREATE
- District of the Week
- Diversity and species conservation
- Economics and Economic Recovery
- Ecosystem Services
- Energy
- Environmental Organizations
- ESA
- Fire and Fuels
- Forest Products
- Forest Service: Culture, History, Morale, Organization, Future
- Future (Imagining our Mutual)
- GE Trees
- Good Things
- Grasslands
- Grazing
- History
- Humans and the Environment
- Interior West
- Invasives
- Jobs
- Lands
- Landscape Scale
- Law Enforcement
- Law Review
- Litigation
- Meetings of Interest
- Monitoring
- National Reserve Conservation Assocation
- Natural Resources
- Naturalist Interest
- NEPA
- Objections
- Old Growth
- Partizanizing Issues
- People's Database
- Photos
- Place-Based Bills & Agreements
- Planning
- Planning Rule Development Process
- Politics
- Press
- Privatization
- Projects of Interest
- Proposed Rule
- Recreation
- Reform and Enhance Litigation and Appeals
- Renewable energy- wind and solar
- Research
- Responses to NOI
- Restoration
- Roadless
- Role of local and state governments
- Role of science
- Sacred Sites
- Science Process Redesign
- Science- The Business of
- special forest products
- State and Federal Forests
- Stewardship
- Sustainable Rural Economies
- timber
- Travel Management
- Tree diseases and insects
- Trust Managaement
- Uncategorized
- Water
- What Should Plans Do?
- Wilderness
- Wood
- workforce


Aerial fire retardant is used rarely east of the Mississippi River, although wildland fires are common in the East, including fires in wild, remote landscapes (e.g., Boundary Waters Canoe Area). West of the Mississippi, retardant use is disproportionately concentrated in California, with about one-quarter to one-half the nation’s total retardant gallons dumped in a state that has only 12% of the nation’s wildland fire ignitions. Compare, for example, Texas with California (2008):
Wildland fires / Acres burned / State Area (mi2) / Gallons Retardant Used
TX / 16,713 / 1,570,586 / 261,797 / 362,000
CA / 5,812 / 1,339,839 / 155,959 / 12,200,855
Texas, with three times as many wildfires, 68% more land area, and more acres burned in 2008, used 1/33 the amount of aerial fire retardant in 2008 compared to California. Nor is the difference in retardant use due to threats associated with the wildland-urban interface. Texas, with 34,815 km2 of wildland-urban interface/intermix lands, has 19% more WUI land area than does California at 29,254 km2.
Numerous national forests east of the Mississippi have used no retardant whatsoever during the last ten years, e.g., Chattahochee-Oconee, Land Between the Lakes NRA, Monongahela, N.F. of Alabama, Ottawa, Shawnee, White Mountain, Allegheny, Chequamegon/Nicolet, Dakota Grasslands, Green Mountain/Finger Lakes, Hiawatha, Hoosier and Wayne.
Some claim retardant improves the initial attack success rate. No evidence supports that proposition, as I will show in a later post.
In sum, retardant use is predominantly a western phenomenon (except in Alaska, where none is used on national forests). It is used infrequently in the East and not at all in many eastern states.
Andy- One explanation could be that use of retardant is more common in unroaded dry mountains. That would explain Calif. vs. Texas.